Starting a Nonprofit Organization Podcast

Health Law Talk Presented by Chehardy Sherman Williams

+ Full Transcript

Rory Bellina (00:15):
Hello everyone and welcome to Health Law Talk, presented by Chehardy Sherman Williams. Before we get started, please be sure to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube – links in the description below. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Conrad Meyer (00:35):
And good morning everyone. Welcome to another edition of Health Law Talk with Chehardy Sherman Williams. I’m Conrad Meyer. And today in the studio we have some very special guests with us today. George Mueller, one of my partners here at the firm transactional counsel, and also Dr. Alice Hoyt is in the show today. She’s a board certified allergist and is the chairman and founder of the non-profit organization, Teal Schoolhouse. And I’m gonna let them both give a little background about themselves. Today, our episode is gonna be talking about non-profits and space, specifically provider non-profits. How does a provider go about forming a non-profit? And, and I’m gonna turn it over to George. George, how are you? Hey,

George Mueller (01:19):
Good morning, Conrad.

Conrad Meyer (01:20):
George, I wanted to tell you, anybody a little about yourself and your background and, and, and kind of segue into how we, how we start the non-profits for providers.

George Mueller (01:28):
Oh, sure. Okay. let’s see. I’m kind of a rehabilitated cpa. I practiced at Big four accounting prior to going to law school, and started practicing in 2002 and been doing primarily transactional practice ever since then. I think I would say my practice focuses someone on some tax advices as well. And so it brings a topic today. we do some transactional work and some tax work.

Conrad Meyer (01:57):
That’s great. That’s great. And then Alice, give tell us, give us why, why are you here today? Give us your your background and especially Teal Schoolhouse. What is that and how did that come to be?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (02:07):
Sure. So thanks so much for having me today. I’m excited to be in the studio with you guys. Amazing studio.

Conrad Meyer (02:14):

Dr. Alice Hoyt (02:14):
Thank you. You’re very welcome. so I am an allergist and when I was in fellowship, actually, I had a school reach out and say, Hey, Dr. Hoyt, how do we use this kiddos EpiPen? Like, I know how to use it cause I’m a school nurse, but how do people use it if I’m not here? And I said, Well, that’s a great question. What’s your school’s medical emergency response plan? And it was sort of crickets. And from my training initially as an internist and in a pediatrician running codes in the hospital, I knew just how important it is to have a team approach to responding to a medical emergency. And that is how DTL Schoolhouse and specifically the Code Anna program was born, Code Anna Equipped Schools to be prepared for medical emergencies. And when I realized just how dedicated I was to this cause I decided that I, I really needed to find a, a, a group of colleagues who felt the same, take ownership of it, create a non-profit to support it, and bring it to the levels it needs to be to help people across the country. And,

Conrad Meyer (03:10):
And we’re gonna get more into that a little bit later about Teal Schoolhouse and, and specifically the Koana program. but, but real quick, how has it, how has it changed your life with respect to bringing that message out to schools and, and, and really faculty to get that message too about how to set these emergency responses up? How has it changed from the beginning to where you are now?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (03:31):
Well, it’s personally, it’s incredibly rewarding, but professionally, it allows me to become a better doctor ultimately by going into communities, into schools in particular, all schools are different. You can have a K through three and then three blocks away, another K through three. And the cultures are different. The people are different, their approaches to challenges and their challenges are different. And so by, by working with people, whether they’re teachers, whether they’re school nurses, whether they’re students, I’m able to hear what people’s anxieties are regarding medical emergencies, regarding medical issues in general, and then help sort of bring them from their point A to a point B of understanding what a medical emergency is, understanding medical issues in general, which I think just helps us all when we all have a better understanding of what is food allergy, what is asthma, what is a cardiac condition, and helps alleviate anxiety when schools are being prepared for a response.

Conrad Meyer (04:29):
Excellent. And, and you can’t just go, go down to the, the local store and say, Hey, I wanna form a non-profit. There a little more complicated than that. And, and so I want to kick it to George. George, when you, when you, when you’re talking about putting one of these together, what, where, how do we form these? Where, where do we start?

George Mueller (04:45):
Sure. I guess first step you’ve gotta do is you gotta figure out what sort of non-profit undertaking you wanna have. Like who are your core nucleus of supporters of it, who’s gonna serve on your board what’s your objective is. And once you sort of get that idea figured out from a practical standpoint, you file with the Louisiana Secretary of State or whatever state you’re in, not Louisiana, for, to form a non-profit corporation. you file articles of incorporation just like you would any other corporation. Only, you know, not to get too far on the weeds, they have a few things you have to have. And there, one of which you have to specifically state what your objective is mm-hmm. . And then two, you have to provide for no private environment with respect to what happens to the assets of that entity, both while it’s being operated and then upon liquidation or termination. once you get that form, then what you wanna do is apply for exempt organization treatment. And that’s what the Internal Revenue Service and that process, depending on the type of non-profit entity you wanna form. And there are a bunch of different ones. I think everyone’s familiar with the 5 0 1 C three, but there’s actually a, a long list of different type of 5 0 1

Conrad Meyer (05:57):
C4, c5. I don’t, I could, it’s like alphabet suit to me.

George Mueller (06:02):
And so, you know, I’ll run down, see if I can recall a few you know, probably the most popular, most readily available appreciated is a 5 0 1 C three, which is basically your typical religious, educational, charitable, scientific, literary et, etcetera. It files the 10 23 to be formed. but there’s civic leagues, social welfare organizations, whatever, that’s a 5 0 1 C four. 5 0 1 C six is a business league, Chamber of Commerce, et cetera, real estate boards. and, and it goes on, I mean, you go on for pages. And so the form 10 23 is filed, those have recently migrated to online because of covid. And now that I think they’re just exclusively online with few exceptions. it’s an information intake. And, and it basically, it asks you all the questions you could possibly think of about who’s gonna, what’s the name of the entity, what’s the purpose of the entity how are you gonna raise money, what are you gonna do with that money?

What are the goals and purposes, What are your expected budgets? Who’s gonna be in governance, who’s on the board, what sort of employees you’re gonna have? basically anything you’d ask someone who wants to form a company only, it’s, it’s gotta fit into the specific requirements of no private enrollment. And depending on what you do with that money, like if you’re gonna do grants, if you’re gonna award money people, if you’re just gonna give money based on your purpose, then you’ve gotta have in your governance documents. And it’s all gotta be reflected in your application.

Conrad Meyer (07:27):
But it’s not simply just like an llc. I mean, LLC can fill out the form, but I mean, it’s a lot more involved in that, isn’t it? Right.

George Mueller (07:32):
No, and, and you know, the, the 10 23 is several pages long. It gets pretty granular and the type of information and asked for you submit that information electronically now along with a user fee. And they’ll tell you it’s six to eight weeks turnaround. I think recently it’s been six to eight months more like, and it’s

Conrad Meyer (07:49):
Definitely longer.

George Mueller (07:49):
Right. I’m sure you’ve, you’ve have some colleagues that have experienced some additional list. Yeah, I think it’s primarily due to covid related workplace issues. I know the service for a long time wasn’t really picking up mail and they weren’t really doing, Now I think they have some people who are remote working and they’re sort of catching up on that backlog. But still, with respect to exempt organizations those applications are running several months

Conrad Meyer (08:12):
Now. Most of the questions we get though, so, so is it, is it retroactive? Is it not retroactive? I mean, how does that work in terms of the determination letter?

George Mueller (08:19):
Typically as I understand it, the your exempt organization’s status which you get a determination letter if, if you’re approved, will relate back to the day at least that you’ve made the application. you try to avoid, say, forming the entity in doing anything that looks like operating or fundraising before you’ve at least made an application and submitted it. that way you don’t have any overlap of whether or not you have status, whether or not people, you know, would say, give funds to an entity that doesn’t even have an application on record. Then the issue is what, whether or not that would be potentially, you know, deductible and you could create something that kind of deviates from a donor’s expectation. So you try to avoid that.

Conrad Meyer (09:00):
So, So Alice, when George is talking about all this and talking about forms, was this the can you tell us, was your experience when putting together Teal Schoolhouse was that was that similar? I mean, is that, do you, what do you recall when you were forming this the experience and getting it all off the

Dr. Alice Hoyt (09:18):
Ground? When I was forming Teal Schoolhouse, that was several years ago. and so I had, I believe I had a lawyer work with me in some capacity with articles. I had no idea what I was doing. I have since learned a lot about how everything works and why it works the way it does. And

George Mueller (09:41):
We find that a lot of our physician clients have a tendency to become very good defacto lawyers during the course and scope of our representation. We like to think it’s because we’re doing such a good job, but personally I think it’s because most of ’em are pretty smart cookies.

Dr. Alice Hoyt (09:54):
Well, I I also know my boundaries , and I know when I need to help with things.

George Mueller (10:00):
I’m gonna start giving allergy shots soon, by the way.

Dr. Alice Hoyt (10:02):
Oh, gosh, . So

Conrad Meyer (10:06):
Maybe we should have some boundaries on that, right?

George Mueller (10:08):
No, no. And by the way, I, No, all joking aside, and Conway can attest to this, many of our physician clients tend to be some of the better informed Oh yeah. And actually more responsive and accepting of legal advice when they get it. They’ve been, they’ve, most of ’em are very good clients, and some of them are challenging because they’re so informed. So it’s a, it’s a, it’s a good thing. Well,

Dr. Alice Hoyt (10:33):
Iron sharpens iron, and when I know as a physician, we, we come from one place, and as legal experts, you guys come from another place. And so I think it’s really nice when we can work together to get to Oh, absolutely. To where we need to go. I was recently helping one of my mentees set up a non-profit, and so, and that was this summer. And so we did do everything online and all the steps you said, We also applied for an ein and that was useful when we were applying through the state of Louisiana. And then also for that exempt status, talking about the the 10 23. And it can be, it certainly can be tedious, but it also helps you just really think out what is it that you wanna do? And I know I was asking my mentee last night, I said, You know, Megan, what, what three things did I help you do?

Because she had this amazing idea, Her idea her nonprofit is called Red Flags to Freedom, and her idea is to teach healthcare trainees how they can recognize and respond to human trafficking situations. Mm-hmm. . and, and she said, Well, I mean, I think the first thing, I mean, you said like, Well, why not do it? You know, like you have to have a clear idea, just like you said. Yeah. You have to be motivated to do it. You have to have a motivation to do it. You can’t just think, Oh, this is a great idea, but if you’re not motivated to, to do it, then you’re not gonna be able to put in that work. You’re not gonna clearly think it out.

George Mueller (11:57):
And having a good core group of people who were

Dr. Alice Hoyt (12:00):
Third support your mission, that’s, is critical, is mentorship in a, in a team of people that, that you trust to help guide the organization, and that’s your board. Yes. And it, it can be very daunting. And so if there are people listening right now that are sort of looking up on the IRS website, like, how do I do this? And looking at this 10 23, it can be daunting, but, but be encouraged that if you have that idea on your heart, like you just think through that information, talk with one of your colleagues who you trust and, and work through it, and why not make this happen? Because if, if you don’t make it happen, who’s gonna do it?

George Mueller (12:33):
Who, Right. And, and to your point about the forms being very helpful, I had a tax professor who’s a practitioner in town. One of the things he would say, instead of going through textbooks and a bunch of arguments in cases, he’d say, Well, did you read the instructions on the form? Mm-hmm. . And you, you’re like, Well, I, And so I always try to do that. And it’s been so helpful. And to your point about, you know, when you first Conroe when you first asked about, well, you know, what do you do? How do you form one of these things? You know, I didn’t say, Oh, you go file articles. No, you’ve gotta, there’s a business planning component. You’ve gotta identify exactly what you want to do, who’s gonna be doing it. And that 10, 23 almost looks like one of those business capstone classes where you’ve gotta start a business or tackle some significant thing and do a startup.

It walks you through it, it forces you to think about it. Mm-hmm. . And, and sometimes you find people who are entrepreneurial, who have a, a really good idea may not have either the training or the structure of thought as to how to get it all done. And so it’s, it’s actually kind of helpful. It’s a little tedious, but you know, if you’re someone who’s preparing them, you kind of understand. And it’s our job to guide people to kind of take whatever their mission or their passion is, and to guide them through it in order to be able to kind of get that thing to the point where they get a determination

Dr. Alice Hoyt (13:42):
Letter. And you also said something that I wanna build on. You said that you mentioned the word entrepreneurial and you also mentioned the, the term business, a non-for-profit I is, is not a hobby. It should not be a hobby. It is an entity. It is a business. It is just a business that you are not earning a profit from. But it is a business, it has to support itself.

George Mueller (14:04):
They definitely need to accumulate budgetary excesses in order to be able to support future operations. Right.

Conrad Meyer (14:10):
And so, with that, with that said, I mean, it it, any non-profit, it can be something that provides medical services. It could be something that provides education or, or anything like that. But it, it can’t just run on its own. And you can even pay salaries to employees in the nonprofit to make it run. one thing, and I know we didn’t touch on this earlier, but I remember a long time ago when the when Form nine 90 came out, you know, it’s a big deal in non-profits, especially with healthcare entities. So I know we didn’t talk about it, we didn’t touch about it in the materials when we were looking this. but if, if you don’t mind George, what’s form nine 90 and how does it interact with nonprofits from the 50,000 tree foot view here?

George Mueller (14:50):
Sure. depending on the type of entity it’s a reporting requirement where basically you report the results of operations depending on size. A lot of your smaller nonprofits used to be exempt. Now think they may all have to file a short version of it, or longer version of it, of a lot of your, like, larger health systems, whatever, to the extent they’re nonprofit, they’ve gotta report all the results of operations on form nine 90.

Conrad Meyer (15:15):
Gotcha. And, and, and so when we get to, when we get to that, what does, and I guess to Dr. Hoyt’s point, does the service delivery of the nonprofit, is that similar, dissimilar as a maybe for-profit? Does it change the services if you’re a non-profit? Or, or, or, you know, does it stay the same? What, in your view, what, what in terms of the services that you’re wanting to deliver, does the status of a non-profit versus profit change? The service?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (15:45):
The service should of course, be in line with the mission of the organization, but regarding quality of service, absolutely not. Just like, if you’re going to a for-profit hospital versus a not for profit hospital, there is a standard of care. And and so you should always be delivering the best possible product or service possible, regardless of your tax status.

Conrad Meyer (16:06):
Okay. And so one of the biggest things, I think, George, to your point to fund ongoing operations, there needs to be core communication development and things like that. So what advice from the transactional counsel would you give to the client with respect to how do you do that? What do you, what do you

George Mueller (16:28):
Do? It starts with maybe understanding that typically non-profit healthcare entities have a tendency to be a little bit more mission driven rather than purely profit driven. But the great equalizer is supposed to be standard of care. You, you’re not gonna treat a sick patient any differently if you work at hospital XS for profit system versus a non-Profit X. There may be limitations in so far as where you’re located and funding available in terms of standard of care, but you know, that’s supposed to be neutral to funding. Right. Except for when maybe you just can’t afford things. but to, to my knowledge, I think you, when you look at how you set up an entity, you’re talking about setting up non-profits. I, it seems to me that a lot of the non-profits who operate in healthcare are either large health systems or they’re specific, specific to organ procurement or a specific disease, or a specific cause. Much like any other non-profit outside of the healthcare arena, have a tendency to fill a need, an identified need where, you know, the current system doesn’t fully address need in underserved communities. I mean, we certainly in city of New Orleans, I think to some degree parts of New Orleans are considered an underserved community. So there’s an absolute need for non-profits in healthcare to, to build, provide necessary care to all of our citizens, Right. On a quote unquote cost neutral basis, so

Conrad Meyer (17:55):
To speak. And so, Dr. Dr. Hoyt, you, you have a founded, a successful nonprofit, the Teal Schoolhouse, and one of its primary programs from talking to you earlier before the show as a program, koana. And you, you mentioned it earlier in your discussions why don’t you, you know, give us a little background about Koana and tell us from, you know, early days on, what was your experience to where the koana program is as we sit here today?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (18:26):
Absolutely. It’s, it’s been a transition and it’s been a growth process and, and one in which I’ve grown tremendously. I would say starting code Anna, like I mentioned earlier, we recognize that schools don’t necessarily know how to use epinephrine auto injectors, but they also don’t have a comprehensive medical emergency response plan. So we have worked for the last five years to create educational programming targeting primarily schools and also early childcare entities to teach schools. sort of two, two different things. One, how can you have a comprehensive medical emergency response plan, like a fire drill, but a medical drill?

Conrad Meyer (19:06):
Let me interject real quick. So are you finding that schools, most schools that you’re interacting with on behalf on the Code Anna program do not have some sort of an emergency response plan in place?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (19:17):
Most schools have a plan of call school nurse and call nine one one. And as a board certified allergist, immunologist, pediatrician an internist, I think we can do better. And I think schools can have a more comprehensive response plan. We should have a better plan for medical emergencies, or at least equivalent compared to what we have for fires, because what’s more likely a medical emergency or somebody having a trauma on the football field, somebody having animal access in the cafeteria, someone having cardiac sun cardiac arrest on the basketball

Conrad Meyer (19:51):
Court. So from your standpoint, what koana would help with these schools is to develop that plan so that, in other words, you’re just not waiting for 9 1 1 to arrive, and who knows how long that could be? That’s exactly right. And you’re talking about vital time for children and having that ability to respond, that

George Mueller (20:09):

Conrad Meyer (20:10):
Response. Absolutely. Exactly. And so that’s what Code Anna does, and you’re finding that there’s a huge need for that. Is that correct?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (20:16):
Absolutely. Across the country

George Mueller (20:19):
In some of the work that

Dr. Alice Hoyt (20:20):
We’ve done, regardless of socioeconomic status of the school too. Right. That’s an important point

George Mueller (20:24):
To make. SAR Generat made a point earlier about, you know, you go to different schools and and they could be blocks away from each other, and they treat things completely differently. And one of the things that leap outta my mind was access to resources is a big differentiating factor there. But, you know, I was gonna ask or, or say that in doing some of the work we’ve done with you I was amazed to kind of discover the lack of a parent existing programs for what you do and what the teal schoolhouse does. I you had really thought that this would be more well developed, more disseminated, more readily available.

Conrad Meyer (21:01):
Well, it’s always in, when something bad happens, people suddenly pull the micro, my, my magnifying glass out and say, Okay, well what’s the protocol for when this a bad out, you know, adverse outcome happens and someone says, Oh, we just dial 9 1 1.

Dr. Alice Hoyt (21:15):
Right. So in medicine, we try to be very proactive mm-hmm. sometimes of course we do m and ms where we, we look back at cases that have gone badly and we figure out what went wrong.

Conrad Meyer (21:26):
The morbidity, mortality. Yes. Okay.

Dr. Alice Hoyt (21:28):
And and, and sometimes other organizations, they don’t have the, the luxury of that of that healthcare training that, that physicians, nurses, other healthcare providers have to recognize that being proactive is going to save tremendously, not just anxiety, but can save lives. And so sometimes other organizations entities can be more reactive.

Conrad Meyer (21:49):
Okay. And that’s what Koana does. And this, and, and, and real quick, real quick, what is the penetration Koana has now across the country?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (21:58):
We’re in multiple states. We have mul multiple programs in multiple states. I’ve talked primarily today about our medi ready program or medical emergency response planning. We also get in the weeds with laypersons in particular, helping them recognize particular medical emergencies. Our most popular program is our online epinephrine training program, so that once you respond to the medical emergency, we teach you the response. But once you get that team of adults there, then how exactly do you use an EpiPen? We also help schools with finding access to resources for AEDs. really just helping schools be prepared for a medical emergency.

Conrad Meyer (22:37):
And how many schools have, from the time that you started the KOANA program to today, how many schools have you touched with with this program? More than five.

Dr. Alice Hoyt (22:47):
Oh, yes. So

Conrad Meyer (22:48):
Between more than 50,

Dr. Alice Hoyt (22:49):
Yes. Between early childcare centers. Wow. We have a very strong presence in New York City schools in Virginia, Ohio. Really? Across the country. Thousands.

Conrad Meyer (22:59):
That’s incredible. I mean, talk about, talk about carrying out your mission, cuz it, cuz the core mission has always been the same, but look at the growth from, you know, start to, to today. That’s amazing. That’s really amazing. So when, when, when you’re giving advice to, for example, your colleague about starting the Red Flag nonprofit and for those listening who have the dream or the inclination, the desire or whatever, you know, whatever motivates you to wanna really, you know, have a purpose. Right. What would be some of the core suggestions you would have for them when you’re first starting out?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (23:38):
I think the first thing, once you decide that this is what you want to do, then educate yourself. Look at the IRS website. Educate yourself on what the process needs to be. If you feel like fi, find a mentor basically. And that mentor can be an attorney. You guys have been tremendous mentors to me and have helped guide me through areas that I don’t understand to help, to help me be successful. So if you’re listening to this and you’re like, Okay, I’ve, I want to do this. I prayed on this. I know this is my clear idea. I want to equip schools to be prepared for medical emergencies, or I want to do, fill in the blank. Have a very specific statement about what you wanna do. Educate yourself through good resources. IRS has a lot of good information online, and it’s

George Mueller (24:24):
A great place to

Dr. Alice Hoyt (24:25):
Start and, and talk with somebody who, who is going to help you get there. Don’t talk with somebody who is gonna be a naysayer and throw up all this stuff. Like, Oh, well, how are you gonna compete with this giant organization? How are you gonna reach thousand? Like, ignore all that. If you just reach one person with your mission, then you’re, you’re fulfilling your mission. Start small.

Conrad Meyer (24:46):
Right, Right. And so, well, and let me ask you this, as a private practice physician as well, how has code and really the teal schoolhouse on the nonprofit, how does that work in conjunction with your private practice?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (25:00):
So I’m very newly into private practice

George Mueller (25:04):
And we do welcome you to the Greater New Orleans era.

Conrad Meyer (25:07):
. Yes, we do.

Dr. Alice Hoyt (25:09):
Oh, thank you. Thank you. it’s nice to be home. so

George Mueller (25:13):
Just say Welcome back.

Dr. Alice Hoyt (25:14):
Thank you. so we’ll, we’ll see how it works. I know I’m already itching to get down.

George Mueller (25:22):
It’s got some allergy humor you just put in there,

Conrad Meyer (25:25):

Dr. Alice Hoyt (25:27):
I’m itching to get on Mere Road. That’s where my practice is. Great. And work with the schools there and really get involved in the community. That’s really one of, one of the things I was so excited about, about coming back to New Orleans is I knew that I could really get involved in the community. but having worked for Cleveland Clinic Vanderbilt, I started Code Anna at University of Virginia. it’s been very exciting to incorporate this this, this sort of medical education is really what it is. And I had an award through the American Academy of Allergy as an immunology. How on educator development, I’m

George Mueller (26:02):
Just gonna ask how much of the education you do, does it, do you deal with say, parents of children who are first discovering or learning about this type of allergy and or, or the type of allergies that give rise to

Dr. Alice Hoyt (26:15):
In my practice, that, that right now is, is a hundred percent of what my practice is. in my previous practices at different organizations, I have focused a lot of efforts on food allergy. And a lot of times what happens is a, a kiddo has a reaction. They go to the er, the ER might refer them to an allergist, or they might go to their pediatrician who refers ’em to an allergist. And really what breaks my heart is that that time between when that child has that reaction and until they get to see me and talk with me or one of my allergy colleagues to help that family understand what happened to your child,

George Mueller (26:51):
To give that knowledge, to take that, that, that mm-hmm. kind of anxiety away and at least give them a, a

Dr. Alice Hoyt (26:56):
Path forward. Because I can debunk myths like, Oh, if you see peanut butter, your child’s gonna have an allergic. I can debunk myths. I can help guide them to live and enjoy their life while we also manage this, this chronic issue.

George Mueller (27:10):
I to, to your point about being proactive as a parent of two children, I think one of them has had someone who had a pinot allergy in their class. I, I found that what was most effective was simply the messaging that the parents did in a measured way, but in an effective way to say, Hey, look, when you, all the parties, the pizza parties are bringing food for snack and all these interactions where all these foreign sources of food are gonna be introduced or available the messaging there, I mean, that is an ounce of prevention, right?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (27:43):
Because it is, and it’s, it’s tough that, that is put onto those families because it’s hard enough. I just started sending my daughter to her little preschool and it’s hard enough to send a child to be in someone else’s care and then to have to, to be concerned that your child’s not gonna come home because someone accidentally brings a Reese’s pieces to school. And so that’s where Code Anna really likes to collaborate with schools so that we can serve as a resource. We have allergist across the country to serve as resources to schools so that when these questions arise of, Oh, this, this, this mom is really concerned that there’s a walnut tree on the other side of the playground, and that her son who has a trini allergy is, is gonna have anaphylaxis, we can help the school address those, those challenges. And we can also help make sure those families are plugged in with board certified allergists who especially have a, a great interest in food allergy. Really, again, to just help people have an understanding of their disease process.

Conrad Meyer (28:45):
And George, back, back to you as transactional counsel and, and, and, and someone here at the firm who, who is, you know, basically the, the leader of the, the transactional practice here at the firm. what do you tell clients who are, you know, after Alice, you know, point Dr. Hoyt points out that, hey, here’s your mission, your vision, and you’re ready to go and you got your information. what do you tell potential clients who wanna actually sit down with you, get advice on how to start the nonprofit? What do they need to bring, what do they do?

George Mueller (29:13):
I, I’d tell ’em based on Alice’s answer to call Dr. Hoyt no all joking aside, I would repeat a little, a lot of what she said, You’ve gotta the, I guess to start with, it’s at Spark, right? So you’re gonna have to have that once you’ve kind of get the smoke clear from your initial idea generation and or you’ve got, you know, what you want to do. And, and I can think of a number of non-profits that we’ve helped incorporate over the years. And each of them usually always had one or two driving people who had experienced something or dealing with something and they wanted to fix it, or they wanted to make something in their world what they were doing better. Or say, you know, there’s a hole to plug here. Right? Or there’s, there’s some money that needs to go there.

And there’s, and so once you’ve found that it is sort of like throwing meat on the bone at that point, then you’ve gotta walk through the initial formation process and you’ve gotta kind of solicit that initial, that initial core group of people and how you’re gonna, you know, assign different roles and then walk and then walking through the form 10 23 is a big help. Mm-hmm. , it forces you to go through that loom and get it all straight. And so far as how you gonna govern the entity, where your money’s gonna come from, how you’re gonna solicit what you’re gonna do with that money and what your purposes are gonna be. Mm-hmm. and we can certainly help with that, but a lot of it is self-driven. It just needs to be directed. Exactly. And then some of the unknowns or how do I do this? What if they’ve never done it before? obviously clients who have done this before are pretty easy to deal with cuz they’ve kind of been through it and they’ve been educated such as Dr. Hoyt people who have that spark and that drive and that need to, to fix something. first time they need a little bit more direction. But it’s, it’s, it’s easy to do. Like I said, the irs it reads like stereo instructions, but it’s very informative.

Conrad Meyer (31:05):
Mm-hmm. . That’s great. Well wanna thank both of you. I think this has been very informative. I think this is it’s a question that we get asked a lot. I know Dr. Hoyt gets asked, I know George gets asked. So I wanna thank both of you for coming on the show and, and before we, we roll out, I want Absolutely. I wanna get Dr. Hoyt, if you can tell everybody, if, if you are in need of school resources and, and are interested in the Code Ana program, how would someone get in touch with you?

Dr. Alice Hoyt (31:30):
Go to code C o d e a n One n like Ana – Full access cuz that’s what we first started helping schools with. but we help schools with anything medical emergency preparedness.

Conrad Meyer (31:43):
Absolutely. Well, thank you very much for that. And, and I want to tell, tell everybody, all the listeners, George, if, if, if the listeners have a question and they want to talk to you about forming nonprofits from a transactional standpoint, how would they get in touch with you?

George Mueller (31:56):
Sure. My email is G A M at That’s C H E H A R D

Conrad Meyer (32:04):
Fantastic. Well, I wanna thank both of you and thank all our listeners for taking the time to listen to this wonderfully informative podcast. if you have any comments or suggestions, you can always email myself at and please make sure to hit that subscribe button. we wanna make sure that we get all of the relevant podcasts to you as soon as they are published. So we want to thank you for joining us today and look forward to another episode soon.

Rory Bellina (32:33):
Thank you for listening to Health Law Talk presented by Chehardy Sherman Williams. For more information or to contact us, please visit our website linked in the description below. Also, please be sure to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, in YouTube – links in the description below. Thank you for listening.

On the latest episode of Health Law Talk, we get into the details of starting a nonprofit organization. Hosts Conrad Meyer and George Mueller sit down with Dr. Alice Hoyt to discuss the details of her nonprofit the Teal Schoolhouse.  Teal Schoolhouse is responsible for a national program targeting schools, universities, and businesses called Code Ana that helps these entities put together emergency response policies/protocols dealing with allergic reactions as well as instructional education and training on the use of autoinjector EpiPens.  During this podcast, we get into the considerations, initial expenses, and legal issues Dr. Hoyt faced in putting together the Teal Schoolhouse.  This is a fantastic episode for anyone who has ever considered starting a nonprofit organization and needed a foundation on where to start.

Health Law Talk, presented by Chehardy Sherman Williams, one of the largest full service law firms in the Greater New Orleans area, is a regular podcast focusing on the expansive area of healthcare law. Attorneys Rory Bellina, Conrad Meyer and George Mueller will address various legal issues and current events surrounding healthcare topics. The attorneys are here to answer your legal questions, create a discussion on various healthcare topics, as well as bring in subject matter experts and guests to join the conversation.

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