Rory Bellina (00:15):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Health Law Talk, presented by Chehardy Sherman Williams. Before we get started, please be sure to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube, LinkedIn, the description below. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Conrad Meyer (00:36):
All right good morning everyone. this is Sha Hardi Sherman’s health Law talks here with another episode, and in the studio today, we have a lot of different folks here Conrad Meyer on the microphone, Rory Belina. Rory.

Rory Bellina (00:49):
Good morning

Conrad Meyer (00:50):
Everyone. Chris Martin’s in the suits in the house. Excuse me, Chris. Good morning. And, and we’re a special guest today is Dr. Carl Hanson. Carl, how are you?

Karl Hanson (00:56):
Hi, good morning. I’m doing really well,

Conrad Meyer (00:58):
And today we have a very, very special episode because we’re gonna talk about a topic that I think has a lot of confusion in it, but also shows great promise. We’re gonna talk about the direct primary care model, and this is something that Dr. Hanson is gonna be talking about us today. So, with that, with that being said, we’ll kick it off to you, Dr. Hanson. What is the direct primary care model? What is that?

Karl Hanson (01:20):
Direct primary care model is the return where the physician and the patient ship maintain the exclusive relationship. It’s where the physician is not part of any insurance agency, does not collect money from insurance companies or government agencies, but instead has a contract exclusively in directly between themselves and the patient. They, a direct primary care model is typically something that we’ve, that the physician enters into with the patient. Sometimes employers can be involved, but it is returning back to the basics.

Rory Bellina (01:56):
So, Dr. Hanson, how did you get into this? Have you always been, you know, an advocate or, or operating under direct primary care, or did you start in a traditional model? If you can give us a little background of your, your practice you know, post med school and residency.

Karl Hanson (02:09):
Sure. in residence when I’ve completed residency, I worked for an employer for a multi-specialty clinic for about two and a half years. Then I went into solo practice and I maintained that typical insurance model based practice for many years until 2016 when it became possible in Louisiana to, to change my model from a insurance based practice to a direct primary care model. So 2016 is actually when I started my Infinity Health Direct Primary Care Practice.

Rory Bellina (02:40):
I see, I see. And, and when you talk about direct primary care, I think you described it a second ago, kind of what it is. I think a lot of our listeners, myself included, are, are kind of comfortable, are starting to see a lot more of the concierge medicine model. Can you kind of compare and contrast the two, or, you know, go into how, how they might be different and how they might be the same? Because I know direct primary care seems relatively new, at least in Louisiana, but the concierge model seems to be popular nationwide as well.

Karl Hanson (03:09):
Yes. Direct Primary Care and concierges are always, always confused to a certain degree as far as mixing up the two definitions. Concierge has been around for a while, and it generally refers to boutique or membership based practice. The difference then, from Direct Primary Care is that by, by law codified in our state in Louisiana in, in 2015, direct primary care practices do not bill or collect from any insurance company concierge models and some of the national organizations still do that practice. Also to be a direct primary care physician, you’re not part of a larger direct primary care entity. You don’t have to belong to a direct primary care thing. It really is a grassroots type of practice where an individual practitioner decides on their own to start their own model.

Chris Martin (04:00):
Carl how so if a, if a patient wants to join your group, how do they kind of walk us through how that process?

Karl Hanson (04:12):
So, a patient typically will, it’s usually word of mouth thing. There’s not particularly advertisement, but a patient may come to us and just inquire or they’ll know a, a friend or family member. they’ll typically call my office and, and I’ll, I’ll set up a meet and greet with them where they can just come chat with me. They don’t have to join right off the bat. And if they if they’re in agreement, they’ll join and they say typically do online, there’s a, a way to join just online using my website, and then the patient joins and as soon as I see that they join from the website, then I call them and then say, Let’s set up a, let’s set up an hour long get to know physical exam, et cetera. So a patient can join on their own. They don’t have to clear it with me first or anybody. They can make the decision totally on their own. Right.

Rory Bellina (04:59):
And and you mentioned that you, you started more in the traditional model, you know, out of med school and residency. What made you wanna make this switch to this direct primary care model?

Karl Hanson (05:11):
that’s a lot of factors. The primary factor was, I always felt that col that contracting and collecting from commercial insurance companies and Medicare, et cetera, were felt rather greasy. I’ve always felt that, that the insurance industry was part of the problem. The reason that healthcare costs are artificially inflated, where they, they don’t need to be there. so it, I had a hard time wanting to stay with at practice. the other reason was because a direct primary care model, you don’t use C P T codes or ICD nine or I c d 10 codes. You don’t have to send claims to insurance companies. You often a physicians’ practice, 50% of it is doing administrative things under the old model. What we wanted to do as a direct primary care physician is we want to get back to a hundred percent of our time spent on patient care. Not 50% patient deserves a hundred percent of our time, not only half of it.

Conrad Meyer (06:13):
And so basically we’re, we’re cutting out. It looks like, from what you’re saying, Dr. Hansen, is that we’re cutting out a lot of expenses on a practice. If you go this model of the back office work that you would on the claim side. And so from that standpoint, you would be saving revenue or from exp you know, from removing those expenses. Is that correct?

Karl Hanson (06:32):
Correct. You’re saving expenses, you’re reducing your overhead, the whole building collection part of it. But possibly more importantly, and I would say more importantly, your time distribution now improves. You’re not wasting time doing those tasks with having, which have nothing to do with making somebody better. Cuz as a, especially as a primary care physician, that’s all we want to do is take care of patients. We don’t want the administrative hassle, which is essentially artificially imposed on us.

Conrad Meyer (07:03):
So let me ask you this question. So just from a model standpoint, patient comes to see you, they sign up for dpc, and now they’re part of your, your, your, your panel, if you will. what happens in terms of, of when you need to refer out for specialist care? how does the DPC model work in conjunction with, for example, I mean a POS plan, a point of service plan versus a strict HMO plan? How do those work? So if they have to see a specialist somewhere else, how does it work with DPC

Karl Hanson (07:31):
When a person, So for a person joining my practice that person is likely to have insurance anyway. Now, I have a large number of patients who have joined me who have no insurance whatsoever. Okay. So if you have insurance membership in my practice has not changed their benefits. So if I need to refer an insured patient who’s a member of my practice to a cardiologist, they go to a cardiologist, and then the cardiologist deals with their insurance. If I send ’em for x-rays, as long as that x-ray facility is, is in network with their insurance, then they’re fine. So it doesn’t change anything I do as far as referrals or access to other facilities.

Conrad Meyer (08:14):
So it’s seamless. Interesting,

Karl Hanson (08:18):
Interesting. Yeah, that’s always a concern with patients that if they join my practice, will their insurance benefits be compromised. And that, that’s never been the case. A patient has a right to see whatever physician they want to see.

Rory Bellina (08:31):
So you don’t see this as a, as a model to replace the insurance, the traditional insurance system, or kind of to work, you know, side by side with it?

Karl Hanson (08:42):
The ultimate, the, the ultimate goal in my mind would be to replace the insurance based system at the primary care level. as, as somebody who delves into insurances a lot, I can see where the insurance based system is responsible for elevation of healthcare charges and, and patients suffer because of that. We, I think from a primary care physician, it’s easier for us to do a direct primary care model as opposed to certain sub-specialists. So primary care, family medicine, et cetera, would be the, the classic specialty to engage in direct primary care.

Rory Bellina (09:21):
I see, I see. So it worked in ancillary with insurance, but after they, after they get past you or the, the direct primary care level?

Karl Hanson (09:29):
That’s correct. and now a non-insured patient, obviously if they had to go see a cardiologist, then they would be paying out of pocket, if you will. In other words, membership in my direct primary care practice is only for primary care services that I provide the patient. It doesn’t, again, it’s not an insurance. I’m not an insurance company. I don’t cover all, all referrals, all labs, medications. I don’t do any of that. Their membership with me is for primary care. However, being a member of a direct primary care practice where you, where the physician has more time to help understand, listen, take care of the patient tends to make it where referrals are less often. That we don’t wait for patients to get into more die or straight where they need some sort of urgent care, et cetera.

Rory Bellina (10:23):
And, and one thing that you mentioned that I wanted to get back to is, you know, kind of marketing this to the patients are explaining it to them because I think this is a, a kind of a novel concept for some patients. I know a lot of people aren’t even familiar that this is out there. So you know, what do you hear from your patients once they get to you or once they’ve been with you for a while, you know, how do they like it or things they, you know, you know, what are you hearing or seeing that that works and doesn’t work with this model?

Karl Hanson (10:50):
Well, I, I know it’s maybe self-serving, but patients love it. One of, one of the functions of, of not being in the insurance game where you’re having to churn and bill services to to, to meet certain overheads and to comply with the regulations. You get to spend more time with patients and patients get more attention and get more thorough evaluation and, and treatment. So many times patients come to me and they’re just surprised. I’ve heard already a couple times this week that patients telling me I’ve never spent this much time with my doctor. So it’s, it’s, it’s a breath of fresh air for a lot of patients. Especially now things are getting worse at the primary care level.

Rory Bellina (11:37):
Well, you mentioned now, so let, let’s now obviously we’re still kind of in the middle of this pandemic. How has your model worked out or, you know, how have you had to shift or pivot or can you kind of explain to us, cuz most of our episodes we bring this up with our listeners of how things have gone during covid. So if you can kind of tell us how this model has, has worked and, and kind of how you’ve survived throughout this pandemic.

Karl Hanson (12:00):
Well, from a, from a financial standpoint, there’s remember the classic insurance situation is that the only way a physician gets actually paid is if that patient comes to the office so that that office could generate a billing code. you can’t charge for telephone calls, et cetera. So there’s always the incentive under the old system that somebody would have to come in under the direct primary care model. Since it’s essentially a retainer, there’s no incentive for the physician to have somebody come in for everything simply that we can send a billing claim in.

Conrad Meyer (12:41):
And that, that’s what I was gonna ask you about that utilization. So have you seen I mean obviously you’ve seen a, a march shift in utilization of services from the DPC model to the, from the fee for service model?

Karl Hanson (12:54):
well, you know, one thing I could say with, with the pandemic there was, there was changes in, in telemedicine, right? Legislation or, or tele law rules. at the direct memory care level, we’ve always done that anyway, and a patient is not charged extra for anything. So if a patient joins my practice and they pay a monthly fee, they don’t pay a visit fee, they don’t pay anything else. It’s simply that monthly fee doesn’t matter whether they come in zero times a month, five times a month, or if I’m on the phone with them 10 times.

Conrad Meyer (13:25):
Right. I, I was thinking about the antithesis though. If you, if you, if you think about that from the DPC model versus the current fee for service model. So for example, most physicians who are employed by large systems, they’re employed with a revenue comp model of, of, of, of a production model, what they eat, what they kill. So in other words, they, in order to, to make a a higher, you know, return, excuse me you need to generate more production. So increased you drive up utilization. So on DPC model, it’s not that at all. It’s, it’s, it’s a capitation model or you know, from a capitation standpoint, like you said. So I think I’m asking you the difference between the two. So have you seen the, the utilization, I guess, drop from when you were tra in the traditional model back years ago before dpc?

Karl Hanson (14:11):
utilization has changed somewhat. I, and there’s, there’s also a different curious phenomenon. Once when a patient knows that they can access their provider at the drop of a hat, my patients can call me and text me directly on my cell phone. Oh wow. They’re, they’re, or they can message me through a portal, et cetera. There’s infinite number of ways they can contact me. Once a patient knows that, then the patient has less anxiety, less angst about interaction with their primary care physician.

Rory Bellina (14:45):
You mentioned that you’re accessible all the time, one time a month, five times a month, the patients can, you know, call you, text, you message you through the portal. Do you find that with this model, are you seeing any abuse of that? Because I know in the traditional model, when you go in, you know, you, you have to pay a copay and you have to wait. And so there’s kind of a little bit of a, of a barrier for patients that aside, okay, is this really worth me driving there, paying the copay, waiting, seeing the nurse, seeing the doctor going home. There’s all that included in, do I really need to go see the doctor? But you’re, you’re so accessible. And this model is based on accessibility. Are you seeing patients call you for a sniffle and a cough or, or are you not seeing that abuse?

Karl Hanson (15:29):
I’m not seeing that abuse. And the good part of it is there are some, there are, for example, certain people with anxiety as their diagnosis where they may have felt the need to call somebody frequently. The fact that you can address that in more depth and more thoroughly and actually treat their anxiety then, then maybe at one time where they used to call you a lot, they don’t anymore because you’ve corrected that for them. So there’s a lot of, there’s just a lot of benefit in that.

Chris Martin (16:00):
One of the things it strikes me, Dr. Hanson, is, is what you said about the proactive treatment of patients. In other words, a lot of our health system is reacting or or treating something that’s already happened. It sounds like when you get to spend this kind of time with a patient, you can prevent a lot of things from bad things from occurring.

Karl Hanson (16:25):
Exactly. that’s, that’s indeed one of one of the many fun parts of the practice of medicine is is doing a thorough assessment of somebody and figuring out how we can, how we can prevent illness and also, of course to address illness at a very early stage so the patient doesn’t feel hesitant about contacting us or something. I mean, we want to hear about things early. We want to try to prevent things before they even happen. And we have the time to do that and to spend on that.

Chris Martin (17:00):
So it sounds like a good model from a, from a quality of life standpoint for the physician. It it, cuz you’re now being a doctor again, you’re not being a biller and a coder. Right, Right. It sounds like quite a benefit for the patient who’s paying a per month or a per year fee and has basically unlimited access to their doctor. It’s almost like having a doctor in the family . And, and so what’s the downside? What’s, what’s, how, why isn’t this caught on more?

Karl Hanson (17:35):
if I can stray a bit. so patients I do have a fair number of Medicaid patients who have enrolled in my practice and I am not on Medicaid and I do not bill Medicaid, but they nevertheless still enroll with me. They don’t see their PCP that’s listed on their card. The reason they enroll with me is that they know that if they have a problem, they can con contact me that day and I can see them same day or next day. So I think that that this, this access and this trust and ability to, to, to reach your physician and know that your physician’s caring for you is really helpful. so I I I think that access point has a lot of merit. Mm-hmm.

Rory Bellina (18:18):
, Chris brought up a good point of, of, you know, all the benefits and kind of having the doctor and the family. I know we have a lot of physician listeners that listen to this show and, you know, without getting, we don’t need to get into details, but let’s talk about the, the financial side of this. From a, from a physician or from a provider standpoint, if you can kind of explain to us, you know, how you’ve seen the finances change from when you switch from a, we’ll call it the traditional model to direct primary care. And, you know, since you’re, since you’re not billing insurance, you know, can you walk us through you know, the good and the bad I guess, of, of doing this from a, from a financial standpoint for a

Karl Hanson (18:55):
Provider? Sure. and, and just to reiterate the, the, the benefit and the satisfaction at the physician level is, is really based on the time and the patient care aspect, which is much more enjoyable. because the practice of medicine is fun and taking care of people is a privilege, but it’s also fun and and an honor. So, but the financial aspect, it, it makes, it makes the finances easier. You’re, you’re not chasing down insurance checks. You’re not having to dispute insurance non-payment, or comply with any particular set of rules. This is a simple retainer capitation model where you’re getting X amount of dollars per month or per year. And from a financial aspect it works out really fine and it’s, and it’s a very predictable way to set up your practice from an accounting standpoint.

Rory Bellina (19:52):
So what do you think the issue is in, in getting more physicians involved in this? Or is it just lack of knowledge or it’s kind of a stray away from the traditional model? Why do you think we don’t see more DCP physicians physicians in general have the amount of solo practitioners has been declining and solo practitioner be to be repetitive. This is a grassroots model. This direct primary care is not a national organization. Nobody recruits us. This is direct primary. These are primary care physicians who are getting fed up with the time that’s being stolen from them and their patients that’s being fed up with the unnecessary administrative burden. So those physicians are being driven away from that, that time consumption part and are seeking to return to patient care. That’s the, that is the primary motivation. So again, this is not, you know, there’s no national organization. This is grassroots. So if you have fewer solo practitioners, then they’re gonna be fewer available who are willing to convert. I am trying to, I’ve always tried to get new residency graduates to adopt a solo practice. Solo practice in general is a little more difficult these days because of all the burden that these residency, when they get out, it becomes very unattractive. Plus a lot of residents these days have a much higher school debt load.

(21:31):
That’s exactly what I wanted to, to jump into. I, I was thinking myself, you know, one of the, the barriers that you must face is that you’re, you’re if trying to recruit other physicians into this model, you’ve got physicians that have, you know, probably have undergrad loans, med school loans, you know, been living on loans throughout residency, and when they get out, they’re being recruited by these big systems that are gonna give them sign on bonuses, relocation bonuses, possibly loan repayment, guaranteed salary for a few years, and they jump into that big system and they get used to, as of right now, the fee for service model. And they might not know any better that they might think that is the, the practice of medicine, the kind of where it’s 50% patient side and, and 50% billing and administrative,

Karl Hanson (22:16):
Right? That’s, it’s the classic Stockholm syndrome. somebody joins an organization like that and their scope of practice narrows they become trained that they’re, as Conrad has pointed out, we’re just going through the production model, right? the big contracts that these residents get coming out don’t last long because they transition to a production model fairly quickly. and so the focus is not the patient care. The focus is, is productivity, and that’s never good.

Conrad Meyer (22:50):
So let me ask you this, Dr. Hanson. So let’s kinda get into the nuts and bolts of doing or setting up a dpc. I know that we talked about earlier, you know before we even got on the show, actually, the regulatory issues involved. In fact now that, that the the legislation is in, in place, the statu are in place that don’t make this model an insurance type company. So we, we, we can, we can forget about that. We don’t have to worry about collecting monthly fees and being considered, like you said, an insurance plan. Mm-hmm. can a physician who wants to start this instead of going full throttle, right? Can they do one foot in, one foot out, maybe have a DPC model for maybe a panel or smaller panel of patients while still doing traditional fee for service? Or do they have to totally convert to a DPC model? Is, is this, is this something that someone can ease into or do they have to go all in

Karl Hanson (23:45):
From a psychologic standpoint? you’re leaving the insurance model, which let’s say is a poisoned model, which is contributing to some of the demise of healthcare. it’s unlikely that you’re going to want to have your foot in both pools. It is better to go to ahead and make the complete transition. However, from a practical standpoint, there are issues where physicians do keep for example, they may stay on Medicare while they’re billing up, building up their commercial direct primary care practice. That can be done. It’s a little tricky from a, from a legal and a compliance standpoint, but it can be done. And, and I myself was actually part of that for a little while before I transitioned

Conrad Meyer (24:32):
Fully. And the reason I ask that is because some might have a fear, right? The stock home syndrome you’re talking about, they’ve been conditioned on the RV production, the condition on this base salary. So switching the risk, which is a risk averse model on her fee for service, right, to a capitative model, might seem a little scary. So that’s why I asked one foot in, one foot out or go all the way

Karl Hanson (24:55):
In, right? I, I think that if you’re already in solo practice with a fairly sizeable panel right, then I think you could feel very assured that transitioning to a direct primary care model that a significant amount of patients will follow you. I, I, I think across the board we see that. So if you already have an established practice, transitioning to a direct primary com care model should be pretty straightforward. And specifically, since we’re maybe talking to some physicians the direct primary care physician community is extremely helpful. any direct primary care physician will reach out and just assist another physician to go soup to nuts and just go through the whole process of what is necessary. And we are a we’re very cooperative community because we all want to see healthcare return to what it should be. Interesting. What

Chris Martin (25:54):
Dr. Hanson on that point, describe the scene in the, maybe the greater New Orleans area in the Louisiana area with, with direct primary care.

Karl Hanson (26:04):
Okay. Direct primary care in Louisiana so far has as of November, 2021 has about 11 direct primary care physicians. And they’re scattered through the state. there’s, there’s a few in the Shreveport Boser area and there’s a few in the metro New Orleans area and some in Alexandria and Baton Rouge, et cetera. Lafayette we have I have just founded a entity called the Louisiana Direct Primary Care Coalition, which is an organization that just kind of teams us up so that we can be ever more available to other physicians who are considering making the transition that we can go out and talk to med students, talk to residents, and just show them light that that healthcare and delivering healthcare to patients is enjoyable. And there’s a different way to do it than having to fit into the old system.

Rory Bellina (27:01):
Dr. Hansen, are there any patients that aren’t ideal candidates for a direct primary care model? Or is there any, you know patients that you, you wouldn’t recommend this for or that it doesn’t work or, or anything like that? Cuz you know, I’m thinking about it personally, but I’m just curious, is there any, anyone across the spectrum, whether it be, you know, adolescents, pediatrics, all the way to your older patients, anyone that you, you find it, they need to stick with the traditional model per se?

Karl Hanson (27:29):
Well, certainly primary care, which would include pediatrics and we’ve some in, in the, in the ob gyn field where it works, primary care is clearly where works the best. and that’s probably where the focus of the movement needs to be. And I do say it’s a movement. I, you know, physicians used to be lions and cats not sheep. and I, I find that the direct primary care physicians are, are more attuned to really reforming healthcare and making, making health access much more available for patients and to have the physician focus. But, so I I just say primary care may easier to do it. it is harder cuz if you, if you have a neurosurgeon, that neurosurgeon is not seeing somebody necessarily through a long continuum. And so a a annual membership, if you will, may not work out really well that way.

Rory Bellina (28:30):
I see. That may, that makes good sense. So when, when you got your practice starts, I’m sure we’ve got some listeners that are interested to it, interested in it. I mean, kinda what are some of the basics or what are kind of some of the things that, you know, a physician would need to do or considered if they wanted to shift to this model?

Karl Hanson (28:46):
Well, I, you know, the first thing I would actually say is to, is to reach out to another direct primary care physician nationally. a number of of us Dork primary care physicians got together and formed on their own something called DPC Alliance. And there’s a website to that effect. And that is a, that is a, a go-to source for anybody who wants to look at Direct Primary care. And also, it’s not just direct primary care. It helps with physicians who want to just start their own practice because your, your solo practice or your small group practice shares a lot of commonality with, with other types of solo practice. And there’s some unique parts of Drug Primary care, but there’s plenty of help out there. And I’ve always encouraged any physicians that wanted to reach out to me personally to, to contact me and I can walk them through the, the whole, the whole process. So

Rory Bellina (29:39):
You would be a good resource to reach out to if, if someone wanted to know what was involved as far as administrative and support staff and, you know, what was needed and, and what is not needed to switch to this model.

Karl Hanson (29:50):
Oh, certainly. I, I do that all the time. I do that all the time where I talk to individuals about what they need to do.

Chris Martin (29:57):
Well, Carl, thank you so much for, this has been a really informative session on Direct Primary care and, and a different model from the insurance contract model. I know our firm has been involved in setting up some of these practices and it’s, and it’s pretty, it’s not complicated. It’s really a couple of contracts. and, and it’s, so the setup cost, the administrative process of even setting up this practice is pretty simple and it’s fairly inexpensive.

Karl Hanson (30:29):
Right. and I would also like to say that, you know, for if, if you’re a primary care physician out there that’s considering, you can do this with very little overhead. You don’t need a lot of square footage, You don’t need a lot of bells and whistles. Patients don’t want, the patients do not care whether or not you have a granite or marble countertop and gold fixtures. What patients want is they want time with their physician, they want access to their physician. So if you provide that, you really could do this on a very, very skinny budget.

Rory Bellina (31:05):
That, that’s great to hear that, that really is, and I think that that would resonate with a lot of physicians. So, you know, what’s the best way to, to contact you for our listeners physician? If anyone has any questions or comments or wants to consider this model, what’s the best way that someone could contact you?

Karl Hanson (31:19):
Well, there’s a, there’s a couple methods. My, my practice website is Infiniti health.md. my email, you can email me. I’m at Dr. Karl Dr. K a r l, Dr. carl@infinitihealth.md. and then I also have various phone numbers listed there too. My office is 5 0 4 4 6 7 3 4 0 4.

Conrad Meyer (31:45):
Well, that’s fantastic. Well, listen, Dr. Hanson, we wanna tell you it’s been a pleasure to have you here. I have learned a lot today about dpc I’m sure Chris and Roy will echo that and I’m sure our listeners will too. So we wanna thank you very much for taking the time to sit in the studio with us this morning and go over the DPC model.

Karl Hanson (32:05):
Oh, you’re welcome. This was really enjoyable and I was glad to be able to, to share some of this.

Conrad Meyer (32:09):
That’s great. Well, that’s another, that’s gonna wrap it up, I think for us. That’s another episode of Health Law Talks here at Chehardy Sherman Williams. we have had a great time here today with Dr. Hanson and stay tuned soon as your comments, if you will, on Anchor and happily read those. Stay tuned for another episode next week where we will, I’m sure toggle right Rory, something of very exciting in healthcare law.

Rory Bellina (32:30):
Yes, please stay tuned.

Conrad Meyer (32:32):
Thank you everybody. Have a great weekend. Enjoy.

Rory Bellina (32:39):
Thank you for listening to Health All Talk presented by Chehardy Sherman Williams. For more information or to contact us, please visit our website, LinkedIn in the description below. Also, please be sure to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, in YouTube, LinkedIn in the description below. Thank you for listening.